Salvation: A Second Dialogue between Elder Brownson and Mr. Whitby

SALVATION.

A second dialogue between Elder Brownson and Mr. Whitby.

Elder B. Good morning, sir. How do you do to-day?

Mr. W. O! good morning, sir. How do you do? I hope you are well. I am happy to see you. Come, walk in and sit down. I have been expecting you, and wishing you would come. I have many things of which to ask you to-day, if you will be kind enough to inform me con­cerning them. Since you were here last week, my mind has been much exercised respecting your principles. What I heard from you then, has appeared to me as near the truth as anything I ever heard before. If I had any prejudice against the Latter- day Saints previous to my meeting with you, I think it is now well nigh gone. Still there are some things connected with your people, of which I wish to learn a little more. I had not opportunity last week to name these things to you as our time was short, and we seemed to occupy it so well with other conversation, that many questions which I wished to put to you I really was obliged to postpone till a more favourable opportunity. But after dinner, I took my pipe, as I generally do, and sat in the corner, canvassing and weighing over what we had conversed upon and other things which we had not. When I get my pipe, I reckon myself in my study, so I puzzled for full two hours over matters relating to your peo­ple. Finally, I thought I should have the privilege of seeing you again in a few days, when I could inquire of you more fully. Now you are here, for which I am glad. Would you first of all give me a brief description of the origin, progress, and present position of the Latter-day Saints, and of the organization and dif­ferent officers of your Church?

Elder B. I will do so. About the year 1820, there was a great revival ex­citement among the religious societies in the town of Manchester, Ontario county, New York. This revival was kept up with spirit by a series of camp meetings, in which preachers and people of all denominations joined. A multitude of con­verts was the result. But as they began to attach themselves to this or that so­ciety, a scene of strife and confusion prevailed, which contrasted strangely with the professions and former demeanour of both priests and people. In this town lived a young man, then in his fifteenth year. His father’s family clung to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them join_­ed that body. This young man was deeply impressed during the above excitement. But the divisions and contentions of the religious societies puzzled him, and he re­flected seriously upon their conduct, ask­ing himself who, amidst all the strife, was right, and whom he must join. While in this anxious state, he one day opened his Bible, and read that golden counsel given by James—“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth unto all man liberally and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him.”—i. 5 This precious passage come with great force to the mind of this young man. The teaching exactly suited his case. He was unlearned, he was ignorant, he lacked wisdom. The preachers all claimed to be right, though, at the same time, they differed, and strove with each other. It was therefore folly to go to them to learn the truth. He wisely resolved to follow the advice of James, and “ask of God.” Accordingly, this young man retired to a secluded spot, and kneeling down began to pray earnest­ly to the Almighty for guidance. The youth had scarcely done so, when he was suddenly seized by an invisible power, which rendered him speechless and help­less. Darkness seemed to hover around him. However, he exerted all his power to ask deliverance from the Lord, when a pillar of light, surpassing the brightness of the midday sun, appeared above the youth, and descended gradually till it fell upon him, and he felt released from his distres­sing bondage. When the light rested upon him, he saw two most glorious per­sonages standing above him in the air. One spoke to him, pointing to the other, saying—“This is my beloved Son, hear him.”

Mr. W. Then this young man ac­tually saw and spoke to the Lord, and to his Son Jesus Christ!

Elder B. Yes. The young man ask­ed the latter person, which of all the reli­gious societies was right? In answer, the youth was informed that all were teach­ing incorrect doctrines, and that he must join none of the sects. To a certain extent this satisfied his mind. But on the evening of the 21st of September, 1823, he again prayed to the Lord for a mani­festation from Him. While thus en­gaged, a light appeared in the room, which increased till it became brighter than noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at the bedside, standing in the air.

Mr. W. A second vision!

Elder B. Yes. The personage had on an exceedingly white robe, his per­son was very glorious, and his counte­nance like lightning. Around him shone a halo or light superior to that which filled the room. He said he was a mes­senger from God, and was named Nephi. He called the young man by name, and told him that God had a work for him to do, which should cause his name to be good and evil spoken of among all people, and that a book, written upon gold plates, and giving an account of the ancient in­habitants of America, was deposited in the earth, and with the book two stones in silver bows fastened to a breast-plate, which were called anciently the “Urim and Thummim,” and by which God revealed intelligence to His people. See Ex. xxviii. Lev. viii. 8, Deut. xxxiii. 8, 1 Sam. xxviii. 6, xxx. Ezra ii. 63.

Mr. W. I recollect reading of the priests using the Urim and Thummim among the children of Israel.

Elder B. Just so. On these plates was engraven the fulness of the everlast­ing Gospel, as Jesus Christ taught it to the ancient inhabitants of America. These sacred things were not to be shown to any person, except by commandment from the Lord. The place where they were deposited was shown to the young man’s mind in this vision. After giving many more instructions, the messenger withdrew. While the young man lay musing on what he had seen and heard, the same messenger appeared again to him, repeating the former instructions, and adding others. A second time the messenger withdrew. Before morning he appeared a third time, and repeating what he had before communicated, added still further instructions, cautioning the youth to beware and not be led astray. Whilst in the field the next day, the same messenger again stood before him, com­manding him to go and tell his vision and the commandments he had received to his father. The youth obeyed, and his father told him that he must do as he was told by the angel, as it was of God. The young man accordingly went to the place where the records were deposited in a stone box, covered over by another stone, the middle part of the top of which was just visible above the ground. He raised the stone, and beheld the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breast-plate. He made an attempt to take them out, but the messenger again appeared to him and forbade him, telling him the time had not Iet come, but it would be four years longer. He was commanded to go to the place once a year, until the time appointed, and was informed that the messenger would meet him there. This commandment the youth obeyed, and received instruction and intelligence each time.

Mr. W. Though he was young, he certainly underwent a considerable course of experience before he was entrusted with the commission of the work.

Elder. B. Truly so. The magni­tude, importance, and sacred character of the work to which he was chosen, re­quired the simplicity and obedience of youth, combined with the soberness and wisdom of maturity. Had an old man been chosen, he might have been too much indoctrinated with the opinions of the age, to readily obey the instructions of the heavenly messenger. Had not the youth been qualified for his great work, by a course of instruction and preparation, he might have been liable, in the lightness and thoughtlessness and inexperience of youth, to trifle with the sacred things committed to his charge.

Mr. W. Very true.

Elder B. On the 22nd of September, 1827, the angel placed the plates, the Urim and Thummim, and the breast­plate, in the youth’s hands, charging him with the responsibility of their safe keeping. The plates were near eight inches long by seven wide, and a little thinner than ordinary tin. Engravings of the Egyptian hieroglyphic species filled both sides of the plates. They were bound together by three rings, at one edge, and were altogether about six inches thick. A part of the plates were sealed. The youth immediately prepared for their translation, which was done by means of the Urim and Thummim, as the language in which the plates were engraved was peculiar to the ancient inhabitants of America, and unknown to the present generation. About this time, he suffered much persecution, chiefly from religious persons, who had heard of his having vi­sions, &c. He was compelled to flee for safety from Manchester, New’ York, to Pennsylvania. He continued to tran­slate the record until he had finished those plates which were unsealed. All the plates were then delivered up again to the angel. After the translation, the Lord, by a heavenly messenger, showed the plates to three witnesses—Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris. The youth also showed the plates, by com­mandment, to eight other persons—Chris­tian Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, jun., John Whitmer, Hiram Page, Joseph Smith, sen., Hyrum Smith, and Samuel H. Smith. The testimony of these eleven witnesses precedes the translation, which is entitled the Book of Mormon, the first edition of which was published in 1830.

Mr. W. I have heard much concern­ing this Book of Mormon, and have al­ways understood it to be of an apocryphal or a fabulous nature. Your history of it is certainly strange, but, to be candid, I cannot say that it is any more improbable than many things which are contained in the Bible. It is not right to hastily con­demn any thing that may appear strange, for it is truly said that “truth is strange —stranger than fiction.” Could you give me a short description of the contents of this far-famed book?

Elder B. I know that many rumours and false statements are actively circulated concerning that book. Its true history I have just related. The book contains accounts of two separate and distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites, and they emigrated from the tower of Babel. Being a righteous people, their language was not confounded, and they were led by the Lord over the ocean to the continent of America, where, occupy­ing the northern portion principally, they became a numerous, powerful, civilized, and refined nation, and had Prophets living among them. But they finally de­generated and became corrupt, so much so that, after inhabiting the land about fifteen or sixteen centuries, the Lord ut­terly destroyed them. The records of this people were engraved on twenty-four gold plates which were found by the second race who peopled this continent. This last race consisted of two colonies. The first were descendants of Joseph, and left Jerusalem in the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, about six hundred years before Christ, being directed by the Lord. They travelled by the borders of the Red Sea, then struck for the ocean, crossed the Pacific, and landed in South America. This colony, in the early part of their career, became divided into two parties. One party were termed Nephites, and were a righteous and en­lightened people. The other were termed Lamanites, and became a wicked and ig­norant people. The second colony were composed partly of the tribe of Judah. This people left Jerusalem in the eleventh year of the reign of Zedekiah, when the Jews were being carried captive to Baby­lon. These emigrants landed in North America, and soon after removed to the northern parts of South America, where, about four centuries after, they were dis­covered by the Nephites, in a partial state of civilization. These two peoples amal­gamated, and became one great and en­lightened people. Prophets existed among them. Jesus Christ himself visited them, after his resurrection, healed their sick, culled twelve Apostles, and established his Church in the land, in partial fulfilment of what he said to the Jews—“Other sheep I have which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.” John xiv. 16.

Mr. W. But he did not bring them, and make them of one fold with the Jews, having one shepherd. I have always un­derstood that this passage related to the Gentiles.

Elder B. The Gentiles were not reck­oned sheep then. Besides Jesus said, at another time, that he was “not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matt. xv. 24. So he would not be likely to speak of ministering among the Gen­tiles. He went to the Nephites, and they heard his voice, and many followed after him. They will not be brought into one fold with the Jews, until all scattered Is­rael are gathered together, and “made one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.” The union of the stick or record of Joseph—the Book of Mormon, with the stick or record of Judah—the Bible, will be instru­mental in producing this grand and glo­rious effect. Ezek. xxxvii.

Mr. W. I certainly never saw so much apparent appropriateness and force in those prophecies before.

Elder B. Perhaps not. But to re­sume. The Nephites and Lamanites, af­ter the visit of Jesus, ran well for a time. But they became corrupt, as years rolled on, and were often engaged in contention and bloodshed. Finally the Lamanites con­quered and destroyed the Nephites, in the beginning of the fifth century after Christ. Their records were hid up in the earth by two of the last Nephite Prophets—Mormon and Moroni, in the hill where heaven directed the young man to go for the plates. The North American Indians are the descendants of the Lamanites, and what few of the Nephites mingled among them.

Mr. W. Well surely, that is a most interesting story. The record of half a world come to light! I must certainly read that book. How does it agree with the Bible doctrinally?

Elder B. Most admirably. Both books being written by inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, they run of course in complete unison. The Book of Mormon does not coincide with modern apostate religions, which have the form but deny the power of godliness. That book, as may be expected, takes a bold and decided stand with the Bible, and fearlessly con­demns all churches which are not backed up by the power and gifts and blessings of the Holy Ghost as the Primitive Church was. On some vital points, which in the Bible appear ambiguous through mistrans­lation, interpolation, or perversion, the Book of Mormon speaks in the most plain and pointed language, so that none may misunderstand.

Mr. W. Indeed.